The Chaos Manoeuvre

[raptor 50 v2]

hi,
I have been now practicing the chaos for quite a while and can’t seem to get it right. Can anybody tell me if this is a controlled manoeuvre or is it all about timing? I still cant find the confidence to bring it down to the deck in case of something going wrong :(

Many thanks

Raptor 50 V2

[CSpaced]

Just keep practicing, in answer to your question it is both a controlled maneuver that is all about timing. Using the sim a lot for this helps greatly too.

[wcc963]

yes it is controlled and yes its has to do majorly with timming but thats not everything... what is your setup? slower servos need more time to get to the right place than fast servos. can you do it on the sim? if you watch someone like daniel jetschin fly he's able to stop the kaos and reverse it on command, no matter the orientation now yes that does come from years of practice, and plenty of crashes. this shows that yes it is a controlled move. the kaos will lead into more moves such as piro'ing tic-tocs, piro'ing funnels, figure-8's, loops and so on. the problem with the kaos is that it cannot be taught, i can give you the basics but the only way to learn it is to go try and experiment. try stirring the sticks slower or faster and see what happens(try on sim first), this was my problem i was stirring to fast and the heli wouldnt flip completly over. here i am a year later and im doing them at head height and lower with no problem... just keep practicing on the sim, i could do it a foot off the ground all day on the sim before i ever tried it with a real heli and it was an easy transition.

[BarracudaHockey]

Here's some tips
http://www.littlerotors.com/flyinglessons/piroflips.aspx

Its like hovering, one minute you won't be able to figure out how to do it, the next you will be thinking its easy.

I think there's a couple of levels with this manuver. As you advance you can do it, then you can keep it in one spot, then you can correct during the mauver instead of stopping and bailing out, then you can make it go where you want.

I've seen John Benario do a piro flipping auto.

[wcc963]

I've seen John Benario do a piro flipping auto.

alan szabo shows you how to do one in his 3D DVD

[BarracudaHockey]

I remember him doing a chaos, and some neat autos but I don't remember him doing a piro-flipping autorotation. I could be wrong, its been a while

[John 3D]

A piro-flipping auto would most likely slow the head RPM down way too much and cause a crash. I'm not sure that's something that can even be done.

[wcc963]

he does it at 46:30 in his video.

[John 3D]

Where is the video you are talking about?

[wcc963]

Where is the video you are talking about?

its a DVD that he put out showing you how to do some of the moves he does, from the basics like flips and rolls to more advanced like the kaos, piro'ing tic-tocs, funnels and so on. he also does setup and there is some comedy thrown it too.

heres the link:
http://www.jpmediainc.net/heli.html

its about $27

there is also an airplane version

[BarracudaHockey]

A piro-flipping auto would most likely slow the head RPM down way too much and cause a crash. I'm not sure that's something that can even be done.

I'm not saying it as an abstract concept, he came to our fly in and did it right in front of us.

[FlyJ]

i can do it on the sim...

[John 3D]

Hmmm, I guess I'll have to try it out then.


BarracudaHockey,
It was really a miss-communication because in post 4 you say you saw a guy do it BUT then in post 6 you say "I remember him doing a chaos, and some neat autos but I don't remember him doing a piro-flipping autorotation."
I didn't realize you were talking about Alan Szabo in post 6.

[wcc963]

i can do it on the sim...

me to :D

[BarracudaHockey]

Hmmm, I guess I'll have to try it out then.


BarracudaHockey,
It was really a miss-communication because in post 4 you say you saw a guy do it BUT then in post 6 you say "I remember him doing a chaos, and some neat autos but I don't remember him doing a piro-flipping autorotation."
I didn't realize you were talking about Alan Szabo in post 6.

Ahh gotcha. It's all good. He (John Benario) did it with a Predator 90 and it was damn impressive. Bert Kammerer does all kinds of crazy autos too but I've never seen him do a chaos'ing auto.

[raptor 50 v2]

hi,
Thanks for all your comments. I have recently upgraded my servos and have been practising the chaos on the sim and watched videos on youtube intensly!! and now can do it (in real life!!!) off the ground!!

Many thanks to all of you

Rpator 50 V2

[VinceY]

I used to fly with John Benario and he would climb as high as possible and try to do as many piro-flips as possible on the way down. I think he was up to 15, but that was several years ago. Definitely requires precise collective management.:D

[theKM]

what I've also found handy for learning this is to reduce the end-points on your tail rotor so that full rudder will set the piro rate that you want. This will allow you to essentially lock off this stick allowing you to focus on the rest. When you have the rest of it down, you can complete the training with focus on the piro rate.


lock off rudder endpoint, then just jam the stick over and work on managing the right rate for the right stick's stirring.
then work on the stirring + cyclic so you don't fall inverted
return the end-points to complete the full suite...