How to learn more than a hover??

[jolio55]

So I am stuck, I can take off, land, fly forward and backwards. I am stuck at just doing that right now though, I just can't seem to turn my heli nose in. Anyone have any tips to learn how to do nose in hovering without crashing my bird?

[Trex Pilot]

do you have a sim? if so you need to practice,practice, practice!!!! first start hovering with the heli right side faceing you and prctice hovering side in do this with both side's untill you comfy, then you can try nose in just remeber that your cyclic is reversed the way i do it is i watch my skids if it is tilting to the left i move the cyclic to the left and so one if the heli is tilted backwards move your stick the same way the heli is tilting. practice this on your sim and try and keep it in one spot then try i for real, do it kinda high up at first so you'll have some time to fix it before you crash.

[Hellsiege]

What happens when you go side in? If you don't then I would work on that, get used to doing 1/2 of side in's so 1/8th the full pyro. I also agree with Trex Pilot, clearview is what got me good with my orientations and then into FF. I would pyro the heli hard and then bring it back to nose in or tail in depending on where it stopped. Made me actually learn the different orientations. Best of luck to you! You'll get it - it just clicks at some point

[CSpaced]

Sim is the way to go, which ever one you use it will teach you the different orientations and stick reactions. Lots of practice and then try for real a little ways up so you have room to correct yourself.

[Skid_Slide]

So I am stuck, I can take off, land, fly forward and backwards. I am stuck at just doing that right now though, I just can't seem to turn my heli nose in. Anyone have any tips to learn how to do nose in hovering without crashing my bird?

I think that may be your first mistake. Being afraid to crash it. Its going to happen... and someone wise once said "If you aren't crashin' you ain't learnin'"

:)

Altitude is your friend, friend, so take it up way up there and practice hovering at a high altitude. Once you get that down, start experimenting. Don't be scared if you mess up and start to crash... you may have time to recover since your higher up. This has helped me 2x more than a SIM.

I just do not agree with sim usage. 300+ dollars for a sim, or 300+ dollars for my heli... I should have taken the heli parts. I can fly nose in, tail in, slow piros, fast piros, ff, FFF, backwards, and inverted on the sim. I still cannot do those things on a real heli.

[jolio55]

I have been trying side in hovers a little but I will start being more deciplined on mastering it. I can hover side in for a little bit at a time nothing to long yet though.

I have been told that sims do not work,:Craven: and have been told that they are the best thing for learning. I just don't know who to believe, and I wouldn't want to spend $300.00 on a sim that doesn't help, oh well I wouldn't want to spend $300.00 on a new heli either... I just don't know what to do, maybe i'll just have to bite the bullet and buy a sim and hope for the best. :blockhead:

[Hellsiege]

I have been trying side in hovers a little but I will start being more deciplined on mastering it. I can hover side in for a little bit at a time nothing to long yet though.

I have been told that sims do not work,:Craven: and have been told that they are the best thing for learning. I just don't know who to believe, and I wouldn't want to spend $300.00 on a sim that doesn't help, oh well I wouldn't want to spend $300.00 on a new heli either... I just don't know what to do, maybe i'll just have to bite the bullet and buy a sim and hope for the best. :blockhead:


nah, get a cable for your radio to connect it to PC. Mine was 15$ shipped but seen them for 10$ for my dx6i. Then can use the free sims out there (orientation training) or I'm a Clearview fan myself which is 40$. I'm not a fan of the real flight stuff and am very happy with my choice. Google will get you the link and it has a free trial as well. Keep working on the side in, it'll lead to nose in and then your off to the races!

[CSpaced]

The sim is good for learning stick inputs and orientation. Once you are flying around comfortably on the sim its time to try it on the real thing. This is when you come against something you've not experienced on the sim - the pucker factor. When you dork it on the sim you press a button and off you go again, no big deal, but on the real thing you are understandably more concerned with crashes. However, becuase you have been practicing on the sim you are in a much better position to know which way to throw the sticks if you get into trouble.

[nexgen]

For a sim, 40 bucks for Clearview is great. I have learned alot on there. It has really helped me with orientation, and bailing out, etc... Now I am much more confident flying the real thing. The physics are great.

[jolio55]

Well $40.00, that's very reasonable, and since orientation is what i'm stuck on maybe Clearview is the way to go. The only problem is that I have the cheap a$$ radio that came with my copter (E-sky Belt CP) anyone know where to get a usb cord?

[Hellsiege]

Helidirect has one here $9.99 (http://www.helidirect.com/product_info.php?products_id=3171)

Has your Txt listed says it's for FMS but if it works for FMS it will work for clearview. Double check the PC specs to make sure it'll work for you as if your on vista I don't see it listed...

[jolio55]

Helidirect has one here $9.99 (http://www.helidirect.com/product_info.php?products_id=3171)

Has your Txt listed says it's for FMS but if it works for FMS it will work for clearview. Double check the PC specs to make sure it'll work for you as if your on vista I don't see it listed...


Awesome, thanks Hellsiege. I don't know if it would work on my computer thoough becuase I have Vista :blockhead: maybe I could call and verify that it wouldn't work...

[Hellsiege]

Anytime, I would call and do that as well. A lot of these sites have had these forever and may have not updated their listings... I still see outdated pics compared to listing descriptions from some of my favorite online heli shops... too busy selling I guess.

E-mail Helidirect there sales department is top notch. I'm sure I have the nickname of "last minute Steve" or something close to it as every time I order I find something else that I want thrown in and it's always at the last minute and they have always got it in the same order (once they didn't and still sent for free)...

[User Name]

the Fms sim is free and it will get into a nose in hover if you practice on it that is how i learned it is just a pain to do any 3d on it but it is a good sim and like i said it is free and lots of models and lanscapes.

[3Disaster]

I'm not sure if its been said before but I like to watch the tail on nose-in and the nose on tail-in. That way when you mover the rudder stick right, the part your watching goes right. That's the only thing I've struggled with. It could be because I'm a plane guy, or my personal preference. But it works for me :D. I just reverse the "pitch" controls in my mind and I'm set. Just gotta get FFF down and 3D here I come :).

[Gmoney]

OK you and I are at similiar points. I am doing three things right now. #1 figure eights. #2 flat 360"s. #3 SIM.. I am getting it slowly.. I will tell you what really helped I flew three times this week (the real thing) and that is the biggest difference. Stick time. NOW go fuel up and fly.. I am going to grab two flights tonight.. After Nose in I start the dreaded inverted oreintations.. AHHHHH

G

[John 3D]

Anyone who says a sim does not work is a fool and has obviously never used one. The best sims out there are: Real Flight G4, FS-One (which is now only $100), Reflex XTR, and Aerofly made by Ikarus. The FMS sim is a free download but the physics suck miserably.
I use Real Flight and practiced everything I know for helis on the sim before I ever dared try it for real. Everything I can do on the sim I can do for real. Its all in how you train yourself on the sim. If you use the sim like its a game, then you might be able to do thing on it that you can't do for real. I practice on the sim like its real life and do entire flights complete with a landing. If I crash I do it again and land it like its supposed to.

BTW, what does FFF stand for? Fast Forward Flight? Fast Friggen Flip? Front Facing Fool:blockhead:

[CSpaced]

BTW, what does FFF stand for? Fast Forward Flight? Fast Friggen Flip? Front Facing Fool:blockhead:

All of the above! :D But Fast Forward Flight is more common... ;)

[Trex Pilot]

All of the above! :D But Fast Forward Flight is more common... ;)
yea what he said LOL:)

[Razor Concepts]

Have you tried Mark's free HeliSim? Flies great :)

[Trex Pilot]

Have you tried Mark's free HeliSim? Flies great :)
yea that is a good sim but there is no sound :( i lnow that dont matter but it helps

[CSpaced]

yea that is a good sim but there is no sound :( i lnow that dont matter but it helps

Just blast out the tunes and rock to some freestyle :D

[Trex Pilot]

Just blast out the tunes and rock to some freestyle :D
I do I do ;) i just really like to hear the whooop whoop :)

[IdahoFlier]

yea that is a good sim but there is no sound :( i lnow that dont matter but it helps
New in Version 2

* Sound! I'm not too thrilled with the motor sound, but crashes are cool!
* FMS model compatible helicopter geometry display!
* Random attitudes recovery practice mode.
* Auto reset.
* Swash interactions simulation.
* Lower view angle option.



Says DX7 works, now I just need to find out if it works with DX6i.

[zeta30]

So I am stuck, I can take off, land, fly forward and backwards. I am stuck at just doing that right now though, I just can't seem to turn my heli nose in. Anyone have any tips to learn how to do nose in hovering without crashing my bird?

Hey Jolio,

I am very new to this hobby and just learned to fly figure very messy 8's this year so we are very close in ability levels. This is what really helped me a few months ago when I was learning side hovers. (I still am working on nose in hovers).

1. Learn in small steps. At first don't turn the heli at a complete 90 degree angle from you. Turn the tail so it is only 45 degrees or less from you, lets say to the left. That way you will be less likely to loose orientation.
2. When you can go through about 3 packs comfortably at 45 degrees then move it 90 degrees so the heli is completely sideways.
3. When you are very comfortable with that position, then work on turning it towards the the right but only at 45 degrees at first until you are comfortable, then go for the full side hover. I found that once I learned to hover with the nose to the right, working on the nose to the left came much quicker.
4. Don't forget that after you have mastered the first side hover, (to tail to the left in my case) and are working on the other direction, (tail to the right), to keep practicing on left side hovers so you don't forget that orientation.
5. Keep posting your questions, I'm sure you'll get tons of advice.

[microkites]

Clearview does work on vista!

I have used it alot on my vista system

I had rf 3.5 and sold it because it was only a bit nicer than clearview- a very small bit at that!

plus Skirtz (the designer) is an rcg member,and has a thread, so it is an ongoing improvement

it does not have some of the video game type options because the designer wants it to be for learning to fly, not a game

how many other sims give you a wishlist and follows through on the ones enough people want?

even if it was alot worse than realflight(which it isnt) and the same price(about a fifth the cost),I would still prefer clearview because it is constantly being improved

mk

[smoothoperator]

Awesome, thanks Hellsiege. I don't know if it would work on my computer thoough becuase I have Vista :blockhead: maybe I could call and verify that it wouldn't work...

I use helisimRc with vista you only get one bird but the graphics are great !

[sherman89]

Jolio, I started flying heli's in April and after hovering tail in I moved to 45's in hover and then on to 90's and 180's then moving the heli back and forth in front slowly in forward flight(FF) with a slow 180 back the other way. That led me to more FF and then into slow flight figure 8's. My real struggle came with nose in, it was a BITCH, no other way to state it. I bought an FS-one sim ($99.) and flew for a few hours and finally got over nose in. $99. spent on the sim is the best $99. I have spent, it has saved me several hundred dollars in parts. I have since learned flips, rolls, rolling loops, piro's, inverted hover(still 3 mistakes high) and many other moves on the sim. When you go to the field to fly actual make sure you are 3 mistakes high. Yes Jolio, if they fly, they die. When you start pushing the limits you will brain fart and splatter it in. It will happen, get the wallet out and rebuild and fly on to the next one, it is part of the heli game we all play, you must contribute to the economy.

[Eric Olsen]

I agree with sherman89 but I use RealFlight. Nothing beats the reset button and Realflight is always making updates. The last update was 07/30/08.

I started flying April of 2008 and have my nose-ins checked off the list. In Realflight I use the Helicopter Orientation Trainer. It slowly introduces you to side-in then nose-in hovers all the way up to inverted hovers. Now I’m working on inverted nose-ins now. You can also use your own controller if you choose. It has saved me money in parts, time in rebuilding, and even better, I simply enjoy the advances that I have made.

I plan on inverting a heli just as soon as I get one that can do it. I’m confident that I will be able to do rolls and loops now.
:D

[jay hall]

Jolio, i learned to nose in hover after reading a post on HF. I can't remember who said it but it made that little light in my head click on. I't was Fly The Low Side.

[Sky_Dancer]

I don't know if this is the best way to do it but the way I'm practicing side in is to stand parallel to the heli and turn my head and kind of look over my shoulder at it. This helps me with orientation and as I get more comfortable I adjust my body positon to the heli so I'm doing a more traditional side in orientation.
Hope that makes sense. This is the same way I learned to keep a plane straight on the runway when taking off.
I also use Clearview. I think it's a great sim for the money.

[Freddie Fred]

Cool

[mstram]

I just do not agree with sim usage. 300+ dollars for a sim, or 300+ dollars for my heli... I should have taken the heli parts. I can fly nose in, tail in, slow piros, fast piros, ff, FFF, backwards, and inverted on the sim. I still cannot do those things on a real heli.

$300 ????? :D

I guess you haven't tried many sims.

FMS, HelisimRC, both FREE. Both fine for learning orientation.

Clearview only $40. Has everything you need until you're an advanced pilot

The manouvers you listed .. what is holding you back from doing them on the real heli ?

- flight model not accurate in the sim ?

- "screen" "2d" visuals versus the real thing?

- "pucker factor" ? :D

Other reasons ?

Mike

[CSpaced]

The biggest difference between the sim and real life is definately the pucker factor, plus people tend to get bored very quickly with serious practice on the sim and start reverting back to video game mode :D

[John 3D]

The biggest difference between the sim and real life is definately the pucker factor, plus people tend to get bored very quickly with serious practice on the sim and start reverting back to video game mode :D

Very well said!

The only thing about the sims and their prices is that you get what you pay for. The more expensive sims will have much better physics, a bigger selection of aircraft, fully adjustable parameters, and still even more. But someone just starting out probably won't be able to tell much of a difference.

[zeta30]

The biggest difference between the sim and real life is definately the pucker factor, plus people tend to get bored very quickly with serious practice on the sim and start reverting back to video game mode :D

I'm definitely guilty of that!

[mstram]

The biggest difference between the sim and real life is definately the pucker factor, plus people tend to get bored very quickly with serious practice on the sim and start reverting back to video game mode :D

I haven't got bored yet. I do get frustrated, and have to take a break after awhile.

I finally got "another" replacement for my 4-1 and started "Radd Scooting" inside my condo.

I see I need more work on the sim, even with tail-in ... if I want to be able to hover within a ~ 6 foot area !

I was getting sloppy / lazy on the sim ... well I thought ~ 20' circle wasn't too bad, but not if you want to fly inside !

Mike

[budgienutz]

SIM is the way to go give you everything you need to know then all you need is the balls to try it ;)

[mstram]

SIM is the way to go give you everything you need to know then all you need is the balls to try it ;)

Now that I've "started learning" (http://www.crackroll.com/forums/showthread.php?t=782), I think it's also a good idea to fly a heli in the sim that's much harder than your real heli, or if necessary, even speed up the sim, add wind .. anything else to make it tougher ... to simulate the "speed up in time" that seems to happen in real life :D

I thought that the FP in Clearview was fairly similar to my r.l. HBFP, .. and maybe if I ever get control of it, I will find that they are actually similar.

But the first time the r.l. heli "got away", it felt more like the sim's Trex than the sim's FP :)

Mike

[CSpaced]

I love the sim, but it makes me wonder how we who learned before sims were available ever did without them :D

[jolio55]

So last night, still not having a sim (for some stupid reason), I strapped on my training gear and proceeded to skid around on by back porch. Doing this, in all orientaions, for about 10 minutes really seemed to help me get comfortable with the heli looking me straight in the face and just skidding around in figure eights. Then after doing that I decided to take the heli up about 6-10 inches and FINALLY completed my first circuit, talk about an intense pucker factor!!! The circuit I made was "sloppy" not really all that smooth but I made it and felt in control overall, and immediatly landed after completing the circle.... Man did that feel good, it kinda felt like the first time I hovered my bird, all proud with sweaty palms and my heart beating outside of my chest!!!

Man do I love this hobby seems like with every new thing I learn the better it gets!!

[trex]

...The best sims out there are: Real Flight G4, FS-One (which is now only $100), Reflex XTR, and Aerofly made by Ikarus. The FMS sim is a free download but the physics suck miserably.
...
What about Phoenix RC sim (http://www.phoenix-sim.com/)? I've been told it's the best one for helis.

Heli-x (http://www.heli-x.net/download_e.shtml) is available in free versions. As is helisimrc which is mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

I have not tried any of the above. I would just like to extend the list and solicit comments.

[budgienutz]

SIM
nuff said
SIM SIM SIM SIM AND MORE SIM
BUT! you have to keep up on real stick time too

[Ots]

This thread is alsmost a year old!

[rutherdbrown]

I am also having the same problem. Previously i it was working properly but now some problem has occured and i am not able to correct it.. pls help...

[Trickycopter]

I have vista and clearview using a esky 4 channel tx that came with my honey bee fixed pitch heli it works great got my usb cord from heli direct try to fly 30 min a day on my sim